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 Heritage Branch Blow Job.  |
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Barjumpa
Dive-Oz Supporter
Yellow Box of Death Diver
Australia
1290 Posts |
 Posted - 22 July 2009 : 3:04:15 PM
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I like a blow job as much as the next guy but this is beautiful.
If you have any thoughts that wreck diving is being shafted at the moment then take a seat, buckle up and hop on the ride.
These buffoons are in the process of covertly making dramatic changes to the Shipwrecks Act.... Clearly the Maritime Archaeologists of Australia are creating a lifetime job for them selves with these proposed changes that ultimately will effect all wreck divers to a point where I feel we will not be permitted to dive on, anchor near, fish near, our favourite wrecks... They also want to change the legislation further to ammend the 75 year rule and make it 50 years.
Why do I think that?
Well.. these people have tried to covertly have these changes made without consideration or input from we divers. I have made a submission to panel looking at the ammending the Act which was originally posted on an obscure website without pointing out the the world their intentions.
I think we are lucky that Bazza found it.
South Pacific Divers took the effort to write an 11 page submission. Which was written with a clear mind and with sensible, and ethical answers and suggestions.....
(If you would like a copy to peruse the PM me and I will send it.)
Following that there was an open invitation for interested parties to attend a discussion forum that is to be held tomorrow.... somewhere.... I sent an email the the Heritage Branch NSW for tickets/seats for Scott Willan and I to attend. John Sumner (wing nuts) clearly wanted to go as well(see Below.)
Sent: Tue 14/07/2009 2:45 PM
To: Geoff Cook
Subject: Re: FW: Invitation to Information Session - proposed
HistoricShipwrecks Act / UNESCO Convention amendme
Thanks Geoff, I will come back to you as soon as we have confirmation from the Commonwealth. Glad to hear about the submissions.
Best
Sarah
Sarah Ward
Maritime Archaeologist
Heritage Branch, NSW Department of Planning
3 Marist Place
(Locked Bag 5020)
Parramatta NSW 2124
Tel: + 61 (2) 9873 8500
Fax: + 61 (2) 9873 8599
Nothing was forthcoming for several days... waiting waiting waiting.... so unltimately I rang Sarah Ward today at the Heritage Branch, NSW Department of Planning. Her response was
I CANNOT ATTEND AT THE FORUM IS CLOSED TO ARCHAELOLGISTS AND GOVERNMENT AUTHORITIES ONLY....!
Well... I'm satisfied that the buffoons have closed the doors to the divers and we are about to be right royally screwed over...!
Enough is enough.. This is a Con Job....
I can see that anyone who is a diver that has put in a submission (a submission that of course they will attach little if any weight as we are all looney tune old farts that have done too many deep dives...) they will say that there was only a mere 4 or 5 submissions from those filthy unwashed uneducated divers However Charles Winston Creighton-Smith needs to be published this year for this thesis lets adopt his wacko stuffed shirt ideas as gospel...
I'm fearful of this "interlectuals only" approach (see blow job) that the true representation of the requirements of the Act will never ber heard or seen and as such I guess one day soon I will have to start looking at nudibranchs...
(I just hope you can eat them sauted in a pan after the dive...)
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Edited by - Barjumpa on 22 July 2009 4:32:24 PM
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rabbitz
150+ Posts
Sydney
Australia
208 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2009 : 5:48:48 PM
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| Seems to me that the Heritage Branch may not have many 50 year old wrecks to map and conserve... Even though I studied Maritime Archaeology, I'll be damned if I will tell them should I ever stumble across another wreck... |
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tassie_rohan
New To Forums
Australia
28 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2009 : 8:00:06 PM
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What exactly are the changes they are proposing?
For all we know they may be planning on marketing wreak diving to a wider audience.
Maybe they'll get the government to fund a wreak diving stimulus package - with bountiful diving scholarships handed out to all, free trimix and tax rebates on all technical diving gear?
Maybe there will be a muti-million dollar TV campaign showing happy bikini-clad wreak divers?
Maybe they won't completely screw the diving community?
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whodidwhat
30+ Posts
Sydney
Australia
99 Posts |
Posted - 22 July 2009 : 8:07:46 PM
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To understand why we are concerned look at the proposed changes that are being discussed while you as divers are being excluded from this part of the public consultative process
Management of Historic Shipwrecks
Q.10 Should the Act continue to allow open access to most shipwrecks? if not, what should be required?
Q.11 Do the current permit requirements of the Act meet best practice? if not, what should be required?
Q.13 Should the Act continue to provide for protected zones (that have the effect of restricting site access) to be declared? if protected zones are to be declared, what criteria should determine if a shipwreck site requires a protected zone?
Q.14 Should there be a maximum limit on the size of the protected zones or should the needs of the site define the area?
Q.16 What approach should be taken towards dive tourism to ensure that it does not adversely impact on underwater archaeological sites?
With the official mission of the Heritage Branch as "working with the community to know, value and care for our heritage".
They are sure doing an extremely poor effort at working with the community it seams only when and if they like it
What we are being specifically excluded from is the Information Session
From: Sarah Ward Sarah.Ward@planning.nsw.gov.au
Subject: Invitation to Information Session - proposed Historic Shipwrecks Act / UNESCO Convention amendments
Date: 2009/7/13
Dear Colleagues
We would like to gauge your interest in attending an information session on the proposed amendments to the Commonwealth Historic Shipwrecks Act 1976 and proposed adoption of the 2001 UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage on Thursday 23 July 2009. The session would likely take place in Sydney between 10am and 12pm and will be led by Dr Dr Leah McKenzie, Director Maritime Heritage, Commonwealth Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts.
Why??
Why??
Why??
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tassie_rohan
New To Forums
Australia
28 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2009 : 09:23:54 AM
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At this point it seems that they are still thrashing out what, if any, changes they are going to request - hence the closed session.
There's no point inviting the public in for a debate when they don't know what the points to debate actually are. I'm sure once they have agreed on a list of proposed changes they'll invite public debate.
Ask them what the results of the meeting were and what suggested changes they have agreed on, and find out when they will be requesting submissions from the public: by that point all interested divers should have some submissions to fling their way.
Cheers,
Rohan. |
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whodidwhat
30+ Posts
Sydney
Australia
99 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2009 : 09:42:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tassie_rohan
There's no point inviting the public in for a debate when they don't know what the points to debate actually are.
Sorry but this is quite incorrect
The process is well underway with a extensive list of questions raised by the department with a 6 week submission period. This call for submissions closed (last Friday)
They are having a meeting afterthe discussion paper, and after submissions have been submitted with the enforcement bodies (Water police and waterways) with still no clear way forward for public consultation when specifically asked (again by myself today!! This is not hype but truth).
This is the farce of the whole situation you as a diver is actively being closed out of the process
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Barjumpa
Dive-Oz Supporter
Yellow Box of Death Diver
Australia
1290 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2009 : 10:13:37 AM
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Hi all
Who else appart from Sydney Project, Richard Taylor and South Pacific Divers forwarded a submission to the advisory committee?
Could you please indicate here if you know of any other submissions or pm me. |
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Mash
150+ Posts
Australia
166 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2009 : 4:30:50 PM
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Ah, Cookie, I hear your pain, but youre just not up with the times, mate.
As a long time shipwreck enthusiast, you should have realised by now that all those years developing your diving and seamanship skills were a bloody waste of time, and as for going out at dawn into a heaving windy sea, week after week, year after year, thats just plain ridiculous. And youve been doing all this at your own expense? What are yer? Some kind of idjit?
No, if you want to retain your commitment to shipwrecks, get wise. Find a salaried job as an office-wallah. Sell that YBOD of yours advanced diving skills and equipment are not required. Gee, some of these wrecks are quite DEEP, and we want nothing to do with that. Could be risky, and in any case, OHS forbids it.
Flog off your boat too. No place for seamanship in this caper, and anyway, who wants to be out on the water? It can be uncomfortable out there. You can even get quite wet. Stick to the carpet in the warm office.
But dont encourage everyone to convert like this. After all, your new job will need some of the old school (you know, the selfish pillagers we hear about) to fill the role of suspects, and anyway, it may be a good idea if a few more wrecks are found before all those evil-doers are all rounded up.
If you find all this depressing, comfort yourself with a giggle at the thought of what Rick Latimer might have to say if we could bring him back long enough to hear about it.
Not that I should dare be mentioning such an insignificant amateur in connection with the REAL civil servant shipwreck experts, the, er . damn, someone told me what they are called, but Ive forgotten. Bankers, was it? No, clankers tankers something like that.
And no, I know of no other submissions but the few you mention. Have read yours with interest.
Chin up
Derek
Av you a lah-sance fer yur mernkey? |
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leeroy
300+ Posts
sydney
Australia
496 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2009 : 7:05:46 PM
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An absolute farce I read your submission Cookie and found it well written with many good points and find it demeaning that us as divers again are snubbed when these submissions are made I reckon we get this wally back to a club meeting where we can organise a mass turnout with burning effigys. |
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ph
300+ Posts
Australia
556 Posts |
Posted - 23 July 2009 : 7:47:27 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Barjumpa
I like a blow job as much as the next guy.
is that giving .....or receiving???.
hehehehe
cheers |
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Rling
300+ Posts
Manly
Australia
309 Posts |
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Snowy
30+ Posts
Whyalla
Australia
56 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2009 : 08:38:02 AM
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| I think sodomised is a bit more appropriate term than blow-job, blow-jobs are at least fun to be on the receiving end of. Can anyone suggest where I can read a bit more about this, as a keen wreck-diver, I am a bit alarmed after reading this post. |
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MarkK
Dive-Oz Supporter
Sydney
Australia
344 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2009 : 09:30:28 AM
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Same thick headed government approach to an issue as they tried to take with the Diver Tax and gray nurse sharks. It seems to be a NSW specific problem!
We probably need to take the same approach as last time and have it stopped.
Identify the Minister (see below), and target the Minister and your Local Members with correspondence and let them know what you think of this high handed, secret squirrel style of Government. If people/ groups like the Sydney Project can't get a seat at the table, how is that consultation?
Ms Kristina Keneally,
Level 35 Governor Macquarie Tower,
1 Farrer Place,
SYDNEY NSW 2000
Phone (02) 9228 5811
Fax (02) 9228 5499
Email office@keneally.minister.nsw.gov.au
In case you aren't sure who your local member is go to www.nsw.gov.au
If we don't actively oppose it don't whinge later when you can't dive your favourite wreck.
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whodidwhat
30+ Posts
Sydney
Australia
99 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2009 : 09:57:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Snowy
Can anyone suggest where I can read a bit more about this, as a keen wreck-diver, I am a bit alarmed after reading this post.
More about the review can be found at
http://www.environment.gov.au/heritage/shipwrecks/review/about.html
With the actual discussion paper found
http://www.environment.gov.au/heritage/shipwrecks/review/discussion-paper.html
As for Stakeholder community consultation with the diving fraternity (one of if not the largest if not the largest stakeholder in this act) it is as follows
As far as I know Barry at Southern Cross Divers was sent a email informing him of the proposed review (Sydney Projects may have as well not sure) and not sure who else in the diving community.
Submission have closed last Friday
From our belief the only responses from the dive community have come from
South Pacific Divers
Sydney Projects
TDI
Reviews for NSW were held yesterday in Sydney with the enforcement agencies (both Waterways and Water police) by both the Federal and State Heritage departments.
No further public consultation has been announced or is currently known of (by NSW State Heritage department)
Understand the concern at being shut out of the process??
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Bea one
30+ Posts
Sydney
Australia
105 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2009 : 11:13:29 AM
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I was advised some time ago from a person trying to lobby government support for something that if you are going barage the minister/s concerned do it INDIVIDUALLY on mass
The problem this person had was that politians are obligated to table all correspondence on matters before them of a nature like this, If they recieve a petition with say 2000 names on it they in turn treat it as 1 document/ 1 complaint,(thats what polititian do)
So if it is raised they can therefore say interest is minimal, I would also suggest that anyone sending something, cc's the opposition minister , local memeber as suggested previously, just so they too know what is transpiring and can be kept honest should a few furfies arise, the opposition cannot change anything but especially with this current State Gov they need to be kept honest because they are not!
It would also be best if you are sending anything especially via email that the cc appear on the one document so each knows the other has recieved it
Just my 2 bobs worth! |
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neil richardson
600+ Posts
Melbourne
Australia
912 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2009 : 11:30:29 AM
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kinda agree with this...
in a former life i assisted parliamentarians... one document = one document to pass onto someone else.. or to chuck in the bin (depending upon the mp)... 1000 documents and all of a sudden the MP actually had to do some work... |
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whodidwhat
30+ Posts
Sydney
Australia
99 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2009 : 11:38:48 AM
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I was advised some time ago from a person trying to lobby government support for something that if you are going barage the minister/s concerned do it INDIVIDUALLY on mass
The problem this person had was that politians are obligated to table all correspondence on matters before them of a nature like this,
quote:
Originally posted by neil richardson
kinda agree with this...
in a former life i assisted parliamentarians... one document = one document to pass onto someone else.. or to chuck in the bin (depending upon the mp)... 1000 documents and all of a sudden the MP actually had to do some work...
And the letters need to be clear, requiring a direct answer from the member (force them to write back), not a rant or a threat, but do express great concern |
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Namreg58
30+ Posts
Sydney
Australia
134 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2009 : 12:45:03 PM
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I've just had a poignant conversation with one of my dive buddies about this crap.
The general consensus was that they will push to introduce precursive legislation aimed at safeguarding their jobs by giving themselves relevance through administering a permit system to dive ANY wreck in NSW.......sort of like a latent DIVE TAX.
We already know that the Government is strapped for cash, so anything that can pretend to be self funding will appeal to the pollies. The best thing we can do is to starve them out of existence through ZERO collaboration.
If you make any exciting discoveries, only discuss specifics face to face among OLD and trusted friends and never dive your favourite dive site on a regular basis ( satellite profiles )
Always remember, they need us more than we need them.....come to think of it, we don't really need them at all plus you are only breaking a (bad) law IF you are caught.
After reading Islander's article, I would like to pose the question " who polices the documentation of finds within Heritage?"
Sounds to me like piracy is alive and well.
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bundy
Dive-Oz Supporter
The Shire
Australia
579 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2009 : 2:41:26 PM
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I think every one should cool there jets a little until they release a draft bill, because from what i can see most of this is just "hear say" and we don't want to get carried away to much to soon....
IF they come out with draft legislation that says they are going to put a permit system on every wreck or any sort of diving ban then by all means go nuts(i will join you) but lets not get a head of the issues.
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whodidwhat
30+ Posts
Sydney
Australia
99 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2009 : 4:51:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bundy
I think every one should cool there jets a little until they release a draft bill, because from what i can see most of this is just "hear say" and we don't want to get carried away to much to soon....
Bundy not having a go at you but
The whole point is to be ahead of the game. Once the draft legislation is out you can only play at the edges. The work would have been done this push at this stage is to ensure that our opinions are heard prior to the drafting of any amendments.
Quoting from the Community Consultation-Best Practice Guidelines
There may be times when it is advisable for key stakeholders themselves to be involved in developing the parameters of the consultation.
To be effective, appropriate consultation needs to commence early in any decision making process (i.e. at this stage)
It is important not to commence consulting so late that stakeholders views cannot influence the outcome (i.e. after the draft legislation has come out)
Providing information is the first step in the consultation process. It is important to the success of the consultation to be honest and transparent about why the consultation is occurring (i.e. why we are annoyed that we were not allowed to attend the formal "Invitation to Information Session - proposed Historic Shipwrecks Act / UNESCO Convention amendments"
An early commitment needs to be made by all parties to complete the consultation process before announcing or making public any decisions. (ie again reiterating that we should be involved at the start of the process not once draft legislation has been written)
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*Ag*
Dive-Oz Supporter
Melb
Australia
171 Posts |
Posted - 24 July 2009 : 5:43:24 PM
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Posted on Behalf of Ross Anderson - AIMA President. Might help to explain a few things.
The Australasian Institute for Maritime Archaeology (AIMA) represents people interested in the protection of, and research into, our maritime heritage. Our 225 members include archaeologists, recreational divers, students, conservators, academics, underwater photographers, museum curators and interested members of the general public.
http://www.aima.iinet.net.au <http://www.aima.iinet.net.au>
AIMA supports both the UNESCO Convention on the Protection of the Underwater Cultural Heritage (UCH) 2001 and the Australian Governments Historic Shipwreck Act review. The aim of this long awaited Review is to update the Commonwealth Historic Shipwrecks Act 1976, and as the UNESCO Convention represents worlds best practice it is logical and timely to compare the Act with the UNESCO Convention 2001.
A fundamental tenet of the UNESCO Convention is that it does not restrict public access or enjoyment of shipwrecks. In the Conventions preamble it states that UNESCO is:
Convinced of the publics right to enjoy the educational and recreational benefits of
responsible non-intrusive access to in situ underwater cultural heritage, and of the
value of public education to contribute to awareness, appreciation and protection of
that heritage
http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001260/126065e.pdf <http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0012/001260/126065e.pdf>
The Convention is clear that it does aim to restrict illegal excavations, vandalism, uncontrolled development and the commercial salvage of historic shipwrecks, including in international waters where states do not have any territorial jurisdiction. It also defines a wider range of UCH than just shipwrecks, including prehistoric sites, aircraft etc.
AIMA has provided comment to the Australian Government on the Review, and we have clearly stated that free public access to historic shipwrecks and UCH in Australia whether by the general public, recreational/ technical divers, or commercial tourism and dive charter operators - should continue. Of course some sites will require special protection such as by Protected Zones as is currently the case, because of their fragility and threats to the sites, and we also recommended establishing clear criteria for this extra level of protection. I understand all comments received by the Government will be posted on their Review webpage.
The review documents have been available on the DEWHA website since early June, and submission to the review officially closed on 17 July. AIMA has been informed that if some interested stakeholders still wish to submit comments for the review, DEWHA will accept submissions until 31 July 2009. Submissions after that date will not be considered.
The Review questions have been being worded openly to encourage a range of answers and comments, however I do not think this implies that the Government is considering action that is not based on continuing the level of protection and public access enshrined in Australian historic shipwreck legislation that we currently enjoy, and those of the UNESCO Convention.
Regards
Ross Anderson
President, AIMA |
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Heritage Branch Blow Job. |
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