Recreational dive boats

7 years 3 months ago #264582 by burna
burna replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
quote:

Originally posted by pgcarter

Important to have all that armour plate, so your tanks don't knock the boat around so much.....
regards Phill




Yes, perhaps the civil version would suffice. :D

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7 years 3 months ago #264602 by Trickie Dickie
Trickie Dickie replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
quote:

Originally posted by burna

I want one of these.

www.news.com.au/technology/american-and-...frfro0-1225932463261




You wouldn't get me in either of them, especially that Iranian Ground Effect Craft.

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7 years 3 months ago #264648 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
quote:

Originally posted by WetOne

We have a 6m Haines with 150 etec and biggest problem - finding dive buddies. I am over solo dives but we find it very difficult to find experienced divers to come for a dive ... And weather is quite often ****ty of late... Boat is awesome




Where in Australia are you based? I'm sure a local dive club like VSAG would welcome you and provide you with plenty of dive buddies.

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7 years 3 months ago #264649 by scubaal
scubaal replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
Hey kittles is that trailcraft 6.1?
Looks nice. I am thinking of the same thing but aren't they a pain to two as they are over 2.5m wide (oversize on Aussie roads)
Al.

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7 years 3 months ago #264659 by IOC
IOC replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
www.mariacruises.com.au/about-us/our-boat/

Bang for your buck, these are the best trailer boats in Australia. If anyone you know might be interested in these boats, i'm happy to give advice.

Regards

Michael

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7 years 3 months ago #264676 by AB
AB replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
scubaal,
Yes the Trailcraft boats are 2.55 m wide which puts them .05 wider than legal in most states, but in 9 years I've never been pulled up for overwidth, and they would need accurate equipment to ping you. Having said that, Trailcraft are very roomy, but no longer in production. There are many quality plate boat manufacturers around the country, and most are at or just under the max width for towing.

Plate boats have many advantages as diveboats as they are roomy enough to install tank racks and a gearing up platform. You will note the pic of the Trailcraft shows 15 tanks on board as well as adequate seating for 6 divers. With the walk thru transom they are very comfortable to dive from. Being lighter than plastic boats, you require less horsepower to power them, and the 6.1 boat in the pic is powered by a 135 hp engine. It tops 30 knots and gets up on the plane quickly.This also makes the whole package lighter to tow, again saving fuel. They will stay on plane at low speeds which also saves fuel. The downside is the ride. They tend to slap into chop, but if you forgive that, they can be quite acceptable. Being plate, they will stand up to being knocked about by tanks and weights, and the worst you will need is a little paint from time to time. That Trailcraft has done over 300 days diving in Victoria with full crews and the hull is still solid with no cracks or deformations. Bang for your buck they are very hard to beat.

Alan

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7 years 3 months ago #264681 by scubaal
scubaal replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
Hmm - really like the trailcraft's and thinking of one secondhand...but I would have to tow a lot and as has been pointed out even if you are *onlY* 5cm over legal width you can be absolutely sure that if you have an accident your insurance is not going to pay out....and the RTA will dump on you as well.

Apparently you can two them if you treat them as an oversize load - big signs front and back, flags, flashing lghts etc and certain roads you can't go on. Seems like a lot of hassle to me.
Guess it dependfs how far you are from the ramp...I'd have to tow hundres of kms :(

Also thinking of the Twinfishers.....have heard good reports of them as dive platforms as they are cats and very stable. Anyone with any experience of the 5.2 Twinfisher as a dive setup?

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7 years 3 months ago #264683 by My-way
My-way replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
When did ground effect become new?

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7 years 3 months ago #264733 by AB
AB replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
Scubaal,
good friends of ours HAD a Twinfisher 5.2 for a short time until it was rolled coming through the heads at PPB. Whilst it was stable at rest, it was less roomy than my Stacer 525, and cats really don't like getting sideways to a wave. The flat sides also make it a wet ride for rear passengers. I drive a 9 metre cat for work and it has raised my pulse a few times in following seas.

Alan

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7 years 3 months ago #264824 by max
max replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
AB makes a point about cats. They don't like a following sea on the rear quarter. You have to be aware in that type of sea. I always place more weight on that side of the boat in that situation. But it's a very small price to pay when you look at the advantages. I have owned a 6 m Marlin Broadbill for over 13 years and it will be the last boat I buy. There is no better boat if you want to get from A to B in comfort. The ride for an aluminium boat is excellent.
As far as diving is concerned. The stability and the walk out transom....great.
I would NEVER go back to a mono hull again.

As for the Webster twinfisher cat. I can only say that I spoke to a guy who owned one and he hated it. Very wet

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7 years 3 months ago #264874 by AB
AB replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
Yes, Sydney boaters love cats, but they aren't as popular elsewhere. They are a rarity in Melbourne and especially among the boaters who operate in the RIP. A significant issue for us is the ability to beach launch, and mono hulls need far less water depth than cats, and are generally lighter to push over the sand. Haines was the popular choice of boat for private divers down here as they ride well and go fast, but the plate allys are taking over even if they ride a bit harder, they are more roomy, lighter to tow, and cheaper to run.

I have to admit after being spoiled with the deck area and dive door of the Trailcraft, I struggle when we go out in a mates Haines as everything is stowed so we have to set up our kits when we get to the site without a platform to sit on then hand our gear up at the end of the dive so we can climb over the transom, then strip it down and stow it so the others have space to gear up. His face goes pale at uncovered weight belts, and don't even suggest stage bottles!

Another factor to consider is if you can rescue an unresponsive diver onto your boat. We ran drills this year where 2 people fairly easily recovered a 150 kg diver through our dive door, but it would be near impossible to rescue him over a transom. So if you have any big people in your group of buddies, consider how you might be able to rescue them bearing in mind you only have a few minutes if they have stopped breathing. This can also be difficult in some cats, as the rear ladder or side dive door can be high enough above the water to prevent lifting heavy people into the boat.

Alan

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7 years 3 months ago #264875 by max
max replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
quote:

Originally posted by AB


Another factor to consider is if you can rescue an unresponsive diver onto your boat. We ran drills this year where 2 people fairly easily recovered a 150 kg diver through our dive door, but it would be near impossible to rescue him over a transom.
Alan




You could always pump the vest up and tow him in[:o)]

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7 years 3 months ago #264878 by TwoDogs1969
TwoDogs1969 replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
quote:

Originally posted by max
[br
You could always pump the vest up and tow him in[:o)]




If you dived on an inspo you could water ski him in on the lid pitty for those on single tanks [:stir:]

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7 years 3 months ago #264880 by AB
AB replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
Or you could just call for a Japanese whaler as they have the perfect setup, but they do harpoon first!

On the Flip side if you are a 100 kg plus diver, consider your chance of survival if you do have an incident. Hospitals and chambers don't matter if you are dead by the time your buddies get you out of the water. May pay to make friends with a boat which has a low access point.

It is worth running a rescue exercise to realise your capabilities but remember, you only have a few minutes to get them aspirated, so a lot of methods requiring slings, ropes and nets etc take far too long to set up.

Alan

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7 years 3 months ago #264881 by max
max replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
quote:

Originally posted by TwoDogs1969


If you dived on an inspo you could water ski him in on the lid pitty for those on single tanks [:stir:]




When you dive with a single tank, as opposed to an inspro, these incident don't happen [:o)]

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7 years 3 months ago #264889 by Bern
Bern replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
quote:

Originally posted by max

quote:

Originally posted by TwoDogs1969



If you dived on an inspo you could water ski him in on the lid pitty for those on single tanks [:stir:]




When you dive with a single tank, as opposed to an inspro, these incident don't happen [:o)]




Speaking of dead divers, what are the legal/insurance responsibilities for a recreational boat owner (not prof dive boat operator) who takes friends diving? does boat ownership compare with car ownership - where 3rd party covers the occupants? I guess no one's safe in these litigious times. Some Sydney-siders may remember a long-running criminal court case that involved a night-time collision on the harbour some years ago. The boat concerned, a "borrowed" commercial vessel working out of balmain, was overloaded with party-going joy riders on an unplanned harbour excursion. I think manslaughter conviction(s)were eventually recorded. Maybe there's a downside to owning a boat (or driving it) if you can be held accountable for dead/injured divers/passengers. Could be better off out of it. Pay someone else to take the risk. Just a thought from a landlubber.

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7 years 3 months ago #264890 by TwoDogs1969
TwoDogs1969 replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
quote:

Originally posted by max
[brWhen you dive with a single tank, as opposed to an inspro, these incident don't happen [:o)]




Maybe check the stats lots more accidents on single tanks then on inspos [^w^]

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7 years 3 months ago #264894 by AB
AB replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
Some years back I spoke with a solicitor about this informally, and he said he wasn't an expert (but he was a diver). He felt the duty of a boat operator was defined by the laws of the state they were in, i.e. that you must be licenced, carry the required equipment, and obey all the rules applicable, plus, you need to make every effort you could reasonably be expected to ensure the safety of others. If it could be determined that you acted negligently and that was contributable to injury or loss, you would be liable for litigation, and in such case, no waiver can protect you.

In regards to duty of care to other divers, he felt that a reasonable expectation was that you act to the limit of your training. He (informally) advised me that I would be in a better position as a boat operator if all the other divers aboard had more certs than me. That way I couldn't be expected to determine their actions as they would be better placed to decide what was appropriate for them, but that where I had equal certs, being the boat operator put me in a more liable position. To some extent this can be mitigated by having the other divers also operate the boat, although if the incident happens while you are at the wheel you could still be in the poo.

I re emphasise that this was an informal discussion with a diver with un related legal expertise, and more than 10 years ago. Other legal types have told me that having insurance may actually make you a target for litigation as the litigant has a reasonable expectation of a reward, as (1) the Insurance company has lots of money, and (2) they often settle to minimise loss through legal costs. Most people will not assume the high cost of litigation unless they can realistically expect a reward, so if you are an average joe without insurance, you are unlikely to make them rich.

Since then HIH insurance crashed and the fear of litigation twisted all sorts of things up to the Lifesaving Society operation was threatened by the result of a swimmer injured at Bondi beach, and the Victorian Government at least, made an amendment to the Consumer Act to provide a legal waiver for operators who were not found to be negligent. (the waivers provided by cert agencies are not backed by oz law, so are easy to challenge)

My boat insurance provides up to $10 million in third party cover, but in Victoria insurance is not legally required. If you want to minimise the chance of litigation, Obey the laws, Act reasonably, Utilise a legal waiver, and possibly be the least certified in your group. Nobody can avoid litigation or charges resulting from negligence.

It would be awesome to get definitive legal advice on this issue, but none of our peak bodies see it as important enough to invest funds to do it.

Alan

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7 years 3 months ago #264904 by Bern
Bern replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
Thanks Alan, the legal angle obviously hasn't stopped you enjoying your boat diving. Like most of the law, boating appears to be a grey area with too many variables to quantify. Duty of care is a broad brush that covers everyone's behaviour at all times. Scary.

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7 years 3 months ago #264911 by max
max replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
quote:

Originally posted by TwoDogs1969


Maybe check the stats lots more accidents on single tanks then on inspos [^w^]




Iv'e never lost a single tank diver on my boat......I keep looking to I find them :p

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7 years 3 months ago #264915 by Bern
Bern replied the topic: Recreational dive boats
quote:

Originally posted by max

quote:

Originally posted by TwoDogs1969



Maybe check the stats lots more accidents on single tanks then on inspos [^w^]




Iv'e never lost a single tank diver on my boat......I keep looking to I find them :p




... alive or dead??????

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