Official Charts

4 years 11 months ago #26317 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett created the topic: Official Charts
G'day,

I've just come across the following online...
quote:

It is a requirement that maritime users must have 'official' Australian Hydrographic Office approved charts for the areas in which they are sailing. If you have an accident without the appropriate chart information you can be held responsible for what amounts to 'negligence'. C-Map and Navionics charts notwithstanding, only HO charts are recognised by maritime authorities.



Is this true? If I'm out in my dive boat using my Lowrance HDS-7 GPS with Navionics charts, but no paper charts, is this 'negligence'?

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.

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4 years 11 months ago #295501 by whodidwhat
whodidwhat replied the topic: Official Charts
Always been the rule here in NSW for open waters, would be surprised if it was different in Victoria

quote:

NSW Maritime Boating Handbook - Safety Equipment - Other essential equipment www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/sbh/safety_equip...other_equipment.html

Compass and chart

Any boat being operated offshore is required to have a compass. Even if your boat is fitted with satellite navigation equipment, a good marine compass will indicate the course back to shore if the electronic equipment fails, or rain, fog or sea haze obliterates the land from view.

An appropriate chart or map that identifies prominent shore marks and offshore reefs and shoals is also required on all vessels offshore. Charts and maps help to determine your position, which can be of particular importance in an emergency.

GPS (Global Positioning System) receivers are becoming increasingly popular as a navigation aid but should never be relied on as the sole source of information regarding your position and course. Always carry a chart and check your position visually, and never navigate solely on the basis of the GPS at speed or at night.



It is not 'negligence' but it is a direct breach of the regulations and thus penalties do apply

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4 years 11 months ago #295504 by Matty Hamster Diver
Matty Hamster Diver replied the topic: Official Charts
Lloyd, you would have to check your respective state legislation, but in qld, you are required to have a liquid damped compass and a chart if you go beyond partially smooth water. Only PwC can have a electronic means of navigation as there primary means to navigate.

Matt

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4 years 11 months ago #295508 by AB
AB replied the topic: Official Charts
Lloydy,
While it has been a requirement in other states for some time, it hasn't been required in Victoria. I didn't see it in the proposed changes to the maritime Act, but I haven't read the entire finished document. Where did you see this notice??

It seems a little strange given that there is no chart navigation required for a boating licence, and few could practically use charts. I did note the term "sailing" and proficiency in and use of charts would be a requirement for cruising yachtsmen/person's.

Alan

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4 years 11 months ago #295534 by lloyd_borrett
lloyd_borrett replied the topic: Official Charts
G'day AB,

Found it in an item about using GPS for navigation in Australia. Thought it could be very dated, but thought it was worth raising. Figured those more experienced and qualified on here would know.

Not really very practical to have paper charts on small boats. Could always laminate the ones for the areas we go and keep them in a waterproof tube somewhere on the boat. But that's not real practical in a small dive boat like mine.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.

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4 years 11 months ago #295535 by Matty Hamster Diver
Matty Hamster Diver replied the topic: Official Charts
quote:

Originally posted by lloyd_borrett

G'day AB,


Not really very practical to have paper charts on small boats. Could always laminate the ones for the areas we go and keep them in a waterproof tube somewhere on the boat. But that's not real practical in a small dive boat like mine.

Best regards, Lloyd Borrett.





that's what I did on the rib, laminated it , cut it in 3 strips and had it in a 40 cm long tube. then stored it out of the road somewhere. no said it had to be in one piece!

Matt

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4 years 11 months ago #295538 by Trev Jackson
Trev Jackson replied the topic: Official Charts
quote:

no said it had to be in one piece!

Matt



mmmmmmmmmm id like to see that theeeeeeeeeory thrashed out in a court o law.....[:respect:]

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4 years 11 months ago #295553 by Otacker
Otacker replied the topic: Official Charts
All states have different requirements, and you must carry the right equipment even if passing through a different states waters. A pain in the butt for a lot of sailors in the bigger tubs.

There are also different requirements for enclosed waters and open waters. The, there are different requirements again if you go more than 2 nautical miles offshore.

Best bet, ring RMS (for NSW) or the equivelant body in your state and discuss your equipment vs their requirements to ensure you comply.

Nautical maps are produced by our Navy and are brilliant in detail (depths, prevailing currents by season, shipping lanes etc) and are available at good map stores but cost about $70 each from memory. I think they do digital versions now but am not 100% sure on that.

In my (short) boating life, I've not heard of anyone being checked for maps, just the usual Epirb, life jackets, alcohol and numbers on board stuff.

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4 years 11 months ago #295557 by Trev Jackson
Trev Jackson replied the topic: Official Charts
On commercisl boats in Qld , you not only have to have the chart.....you have to have it out on your chart table [ and it has to be the one for the area youre in]

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4 years 11 months ago #295558 by AB
AB replied the topic: Official Charts
$70?? I think the Australian Hydrographic Service charts are around half that. Maybe it varies depending on the location?? I did spend $60 for Crawfords Mariners Atlas, a compendium of Royal Australian Navy Charts for large sections of the coastline (mine covers Apollo Bay to Jervis Bay). I do carry the relevant charts when boating interstate, but I can't imagine trying to use them at sea.

Vic rec boaties require a compass when more than 2 NM from the coast, and you can comply for as little as $20. It worked to find Australia in the fog, but I wouldn't trust it to get me to Tassie!

Alan

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4 years 11 months ago #295605 by Otacker
Otacker replied the topic: Official Charts
Hey Alan, glad you found Australia mate. Where abouts did you come from? [:stir:] :)

Yeah, I am pretty sure my maps were about $70, and they are for the Sydney coastal area. So, like everything in Sydney, I'm sure they just stuck the Sydney Tax on them. They didn't want them to be too cheap after all!

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4 years 11 months ago #295615 by AB
AB replied the topic: Official Charts
Greg,
I was only about 3 or 4 k's out, but that's about as much as I'd trust my compass. It's never been adjusted and it can be a mongrel to follow in a rough sea. Still it ticks the legal box, and I would say nice things to it if it was all I had offshore.

I would shop around for Sydney charts, as I think you may be getting screwed!
www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.as...07&intAbsolutePage=1

Alan

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4 years 11 months ago #295616 by David Flew
David Flew replied the topic: Official Charts
The Victorian Recreational Boat Safety Handbook says a boat needs to be equipped with a compass, but has a picture of a hand held one. I figure a dive compass would comply.
The same book recommends having a chart, but doesn't suggest it's mandatory.

And Parks Victoria provides free "recreational boating guides" for Port Phillip Bay and Westernport. These are folded, waterproof maps. They say "not to be used for navigation" but have nearly all the detail of the official charts.

So in Victoria you would be safe and legal with your dive compass and a free chart, at least in the major bays.

David

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4 years 11 months ago #295618 by whodidwhat
whodidwhat replied the topic: Official Charts
Yep a dive compass should do

But is

quote:

Originally posted by David G Flew

The Victorian Recreational Boat Safety Handbook




the current version of the Victorian Recreational Boat Safety Handbook. These often lag the Legislation

Most likely this is recent change (just a guess) and more to do with the national harmonisation of boating regulations that is currently actively going on

www.diveoz.com.au/DISCUSSION_FORUMS/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27020 (Bringing NSW rules in line with Qlds)

and
www.diveoz.com.au/discussion_forums/topi...=true&TOPIC_ID=26550 (bringing in line and nationalising commercial vessels)

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4 years 11 months ago #295624 by David Flew
David Flew replied the topic: Official Charts
I'm looking at the July 2012 version; it's the latest.
David

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4 years 11 months ago #295666 by Andy G
Andy G replied the topic: Official Charts
Not sure about recreational requirements... But all commercial vessels in Australia and infact the world are required to carry paper charts for the area of operation unless they are fitted with an IMO approved ECDIS system x 2.. only then are they alowed to sail paperless.

I would imagine that all states in Australia at least recomend that recreational mariners carry official paper charts.

Remember that all ECS systems and those free charts, all state: "Aid to navigation only" or "Not to be used as the primary source of navigation"

But this will only ever get brought up if there is an accident, maybe not even then.

my2c

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4 years 11 months ago #295674 by David Flew
David Flew replied the topic: Official Charts
Andy
I thought I'd made my comments clear - recreational, Victoria. There certainly is wording in the free recreational boating guide about not to be used for navigation. However the improvements in quality, layout, and presentation -including being folded and waterproof - over the last few years means they are way way better than a mouldy old version of chart Aus 155!!

In the context of having some sort of chart as a back-up to a chart plotter, in a small recreational boat, in a place where it's recommended to have a chart ...... pretty hard to beat.

DF

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4 years 11 months ago #295691 by Smurf
Smurf replied the topic: Official Charts
Well I just got the new version of ecpins/nds/ndss.looks amazing, still have to carry folio N from the AHO and to keep it up to date but at least I can get rid of folio 1-10, if you have any questions you can contact me at the hydro office in woolongong.

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4 years 11 months ago #295694 by Andy G
Andy G replied the topic: Official Charts
Hi David, very clear!! And I agree..
But, as we both have stated....State maritime authorities; including Vic, suggest that recreational mariners carry a chart and the free one says, "not to be used for navigation", yes it gives you the info you need, but it is not the official chart.

Fact is the only legal form of primary navigation is official charts or IMO approved ECDIS x 2... Everything else is considered to be an aid or back up to navigation.

I have been a commercial master for over 16 years and can only speak from the experience and training that I have.

I'll leave it at that.

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4 years 10 months ago #296129 by Karl85
Karl85 replied the topic: Official Charts
How often do you need to change these charts though? How often are they updated?

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4 years 10 months ago #296156 by Andy G
Andy G replied the topic: Official Charts
Hi Karl, weekly Notice to Mariners contain corrections and T & P notices that need to be applied. Sometimes the Chart will require regular corrections and sometimes no corrections for several months or even years. To be legal all charts need to be up to date.
Every now and then a new eddition of the chart is released. Chart corrections on a vessel that travels far and wide can be a pain in the a...!

Have a look at the bottom of the chart, you will find the edition year and over to the left the corrections that have been applied so far.

Note; Electronic chart systems also need to be corrected.

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