child tires, unresponsive and sinks

5 years 3 weeks ago #26305 by pez
pez created the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
twice now my step daughter, when tired, has needed to be rescued from a pool. the first time i was unfortunately not present, the description given to me was that the water was cold, she was tired, and she just went underwater and didn't surface. fortunately a lady at the park where we were staying had the incentive to dive in and grab her out. since then i have been a lot more paranoid and she is rarely in the water out of my sight

on saturday we were at a friend's place and it happened when i was watching.

it was towards the end of the afternoon so she was tired, but this pool was heated so i don't think the water temperature contributed, it was cold water on the last occasion.

i looked down to see her underwater, she was floating about as badly as i do, head under the surface, body vertical and feet down. i grabbed her arm and gave her a shake, she didn't respond quickly enough for a paranoid parent (or step parent) so i picked her up out of the water and she cuddled into me and was ok (i nearly puked i was that stressed/adrenalin rushed)

on the first occasion she said she just fell asleep, but we couldn't get anything more out of her. on the second she was very withdrawn and we haven't been able to get anything out of her. i don't think it's an attention thing but i have never seen this before. we're going to see a dr about it but if anyone has anything to contribute i'd be glad for any input

regards
pez

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295405 by spiro
spiro replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
Narcolepsy perhaps?

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295406 by pez
pez replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
thanks, not sure that's what it is, i'd never heard of it, but it's a starting point. reading the wikipedia article now

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295407 by spiro
spiro replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
Really the only things I can think of are either seeing a doctor to find out if she has a condition,
or invest in swimming lessons if you havent already done so, get her a flotation device, and dont let her swim when tired, perhaps limit the time she spends in the water to shorter intervals.

The whole reason why it has been said for kids not to swim for an hour after eating is entirely for this reason, as digestion makes you tired and lethargic and can make it unsafe to swim.

Does she not realise that she is getting tired and swim to the side?

I hope you sort something out, as it would be devastating if something should happen..

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295411 by pez
pez replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
we're going to see a dr, but i thought i'd put this out there and see if anyone had any ideas.
she's had swimming lessons and has the skills to swim to the side usually when things screwup.
she hadn't eaten for well over an hour before in both cases and she is very reluctant to talk about it afterwards. i thought i'd drummed in the need to avoid swimming when tired (but she's a kid, the teeth will be chattering and she'll say she isn't cold)

when i plucked her out i was standing at the side of the pool

anyway, thanks for the input, we are going to see a dr but i'm at a complete loss so i was hoping someone had seen something similar before.

after the first time, especially as i wasn't there when she was swimming my protectiveness went up, but after this it has hit new highs and she won't be swimming without either myself or her father around until we work it out

and yes, i think you're right, i hadn't considered a floatation device, brain still stuck in stupid, she can swim with a jacket or something from now on

thanks again

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295412 by spiro

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295413 by pez
pez replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
thanks mate, we have the noodles, but it has only happened so far in other pools. she has a little lifejacket, that may be the answer for the short term until we know what's going on

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295414 by spiro
spiro replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
or at least untill she is big enough to stand..

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295415 by pez
pez replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
she can stand. she's 7, usually a fish which is why this has caught us so completely out

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295422 by Dave
Dave replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
It would be worth considering 'absence seizures'. Google that term and you will get heaps of info.

These often present with a fairly brief period of 'absence' that is often not very obvious. The person may just look like they are having a brief daydream or a few moments of inattention and so often it is not noticed. However in a swimming pool it would obviously be more noticable and could have potentially dangerous consequences.

Of course this may not be the problem, but may be worth looking into nevertheless.

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295425 by rachel
rachel replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
drowning is a quiet affair. look up Instinctive Drowning Response. From mario vittone blog mariovittone.com

1.Except in rare circumstances, drowning people are physiologically unable to call out for help. The respiratory system was designed for breathing. Speech is the secondary or overlaid function. Breathing must be fulfilled, before speech occurs.
2.Drowning peoples mouths alternately sink below and reappear above the surface of the water. The mouths of drowning people are not above the surface of the water long enough for them to exhale, inhale, and call out for help. When the drowning peoples mouths are above the surface, they exhale and inhale quickly as their mouths start to sink below the surface of the water.
3.Drowning people cannot wave for help. Nature instinctively forces them to extend their arms laterally and press down on the waters surface. Pressing down on the surface of the water, permits drowning people to leverage their bodies so they can lift their mouths out of the water to breathe.
4.Throughout the Instinctive Drowning Response, drowning people cannot voluntarily control their arm movements. Physiologically, drowning people who are struggling on the surface of the water cannot stop drowning and perform voluntary movements such as waving for help, moving toward a rescuer, or reaching out for a piece of rescue equipment.
5.From beginning to end of the Instinctive Drowning Response peoples bodies remain upright in the water, with no evidence of a supporting kick. Unless rescued by a trained lifeguard, these drowning people can only struggle on the surface of the water from 20 to 60 seconds before submersion occurs.


rachel

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295438 by pez
pez replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
thanks people, some things for us to think about

regards
pez

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295441 by Michael McFadyen
Michael McFadyen replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
Diabetes? Falling asleep a lot? Thirsty?

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295442 by spiro
spiro replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
This has me intrigued now.. if she can stand up in this pool.. then where is the problem? if she tires or cant swim any more all she has to do is stand yeah?

Seems to me she needs to be guided in the right direction of standing when in distress, and perhaps kept out of the deep end for now.

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295444 by pez
pez replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
my mistake Spiro, i thought you meant able to stand as in old enough to walk. she was a little out of her depth both times.

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5 years 3 weeks ago #295446 by pez
pez replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
i don't think she was thirsty, we're not ruling anything out though and we'll get the dr to check for diabetes and find out about how to investigate seizures and the like

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5 years 2 weeks ago #295554 by Otacker
Otacker replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
Passive panic? She has become over tired quickly and her system shuts down from panic and she is unresponsive? You know how some kids can be with their energy. It is like an on/off switch at times.

Would be a bit weird being on the surface and not thrashing about a little at least though... Just a thought.

I have a 7yr old daughter myself who loves the pool, so I certainly hope you are able to sort it out and it turns out to be nothing serious. All the best!

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5 years 2 weeks ago #295570 by pez
pez replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
thanks Otacker, i thought it was wierd too, until i read Rachel's response, followed the link and searched on it a bit.

it turns out that from what i have since read, a lot of near drowning incidents don't involve any thrashing about at all.

we're not writing off the other responses though and are going to get her checked out as well.

thanks again all for taking the time to respond

regards
pez

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5 years 2 weeks ago #295604 by Otacker
Otacker replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
If it's not too intrusive on your family Pez, would you mind posting what the outcome is? Knowledge is a powerful thing, and I'd be interested to know what may be causing such issues.

Cheers,
Greg.

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5 years 2 weeks ago #295620 by pez
pez replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
yeah definitely

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5 years 1 week ago #295723 by Jamie
Jamie replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
Did she seem alert once out of the water? Her resistance to talk after may have been the post ictal phase of a seizure??? Good luck with investigations.

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5 years 1 week ago #295750 by Tassie Diver
Tassie Diver replied the topic: child tires, unresponsive and sinks
Jamie and Dave have already mentioned what I thought of when I read the original post. I would query epilepsy or related issues and specifically mention it to any doctor you see. (I'll be surprised if a doctor doesn't go there, but everyone has bad days.)
Good luck.

Cheers

TD.

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