Padi scams

5 years 1 day ago #26367 by Rimau
Rimau created the topic: Padi scams
I am a bit upset that I went online to "padi's" site to find that only one of my certificates had been listed, I rang them only to be told that things have changed now as I need to re qualify as a dive master and that I can't even get an updated photo, as my existing card has me in 1985. A lot younger and with more hair. Now it seems that my diving history can be manipulated by some young money grubber. I say after reading one of the forums here that firstly ssi is not the only dive organization to be approved by the Government as occupational health and safety exempts all dive cards, As far as as diving the Picc's goes, well as an old cat 2 cdaa diver, I would need to update my certification before I could even apply. But and this is the BUT, IF THE PRICES FOR RE CERTIFICATION ARE GOING TO KEEP GOING UP THEN I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN PLACE AN EXPIRY DATE ON THEM! shout out and make a difference.

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5 years 1 day ago #295891 by spiro
spiro replied the topic: Padi scams
That's standard. If you haven't kept your membership and insurance going then you will need to re qualify as a dm. Best bet is to find a friend who is an instructor to run you thru it at mates rates.

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5 years 1 day ago #295892 by Richard Taylor
Richard Taylor replied the topic: Padi scams
Bill,
It would be possible to do an Inactive Update and a Crossover at the same time with an SDI Instructor. There are requirements, however it is much less than redoing an entire DM course (Theory review, rescue assessment, Swims, Skills assessment, presentation, exam).
Cheers
Richard

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5 years 1 day ago #295897 by Rimau
Rimau replied the topic: Padi scams
Thanks for the heads up, as far as paying out more money goes, I am well and truly over that! I started diving many years ago at 11 years of age and now I am 56, so apart from watching gear cost go up to be told that I need to satisfy an instructor is not on I used to be an instructor myself with several specialties under my belt Dive master, cave diver cat two, night diver, equip specialist, cavern diver {padi} retail dive store and management, rescue diver, as well as underwater ops "welding" Saturation technician and clearance diver, and lastly Master Diver "PDAA". Now if a person is very wealthy then sure pay out, but keep in mind that if you get a "bend" as did I then you tend to wait until you are fit enough to see if you can carry out the task at hand, I can now only dive to 33' and I can never see the piccs again as I dream about. So Any certification really is only as good as they say it is. A dive shop can choose to only sell to certified diver's {not good for there income} But you try showing a battered dive master or any other privately run Organization taken as far back as 1985 when you have hair and all your own teeth, and get the person to compare it to you at 56. I was not able to dive for many years and now I can at least get what little hair I do have WET, I am told to update my certification At least on the rigs they {the actual divers} know experience counts more that a bit of "non Government recognized" certs. If the government is going to except one organization over another, then Diving should be in Government control, Maybe that way I would not have been subjected to a bend that nearly killed me because I was forced to use the us navy dive tables and I was not allowed to use my own mix "nitrox" Just maybe I could type better and have a better memory than what I do!

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5 years 1 day ago #295900 by Aquamaniac
Aquamaniac replied the topic: Padi scams
Rimau.
Sorry mate, but Im going to go against you here.
If you were certified as a DM in '85, and in your own words, "have not dived for many years", then yes, you should have to re qualify.

I certainly wouldn't have you on my boat as a DM. For all I know, you are out of touch with current practices, possibly out of touch with your skills, and have possibly forgotten most of what you once knew.

I know this sounds a bit harsh, but as a DM, you have people relying on you. If you still have what it takes, and are as sharp as you used to be, then a re-cert is not going to be too hard, and should be fun. I think the cost is a small price to pay.

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5 years 1 day ago #295901 by spiro
spiro replied the topic: Padi scams
What he said! I have let my dm quals lapse also or a few years but have kept up with diving and deep training. I am fully aware that to renew my cert as a dm means re certification, this I can and will do thru a friend who is an instructor who will do it at cost. Fact of the matter is I have no desire at the moment to use the cert.

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5 years 21 hours ago #295904 by Rimau
Rimau replied the topic: Padi scams
It's nice to be chatting with folk who at least know what "dcs" is! and it's not harsh , but during that time I was mixing gases for "deep diving" and I stopped diving for three years. but as you say three years in techno terms is a long time and it's only that if you miss one financial year, according to "padi" you must do it again. "padi" will not take into account any commercial time that you dive. I placed this into the forum under medical because I know the bends can and always will be with me. You need to be sure that your {DM} is up to scratch , but a person in an office can't make that call! I just hope that by opening this topic it will make people realize that sometimes paperwork and younger folk understand that before "padi" was around some folk dived and also gave there lives for there passion, try "the shaft" and try and figure why the last diver should not have been last and maybe then the others may have lived. Agnus would have agreed with me, I am sure. but getting back to the point, that if you need to update your photo then, in there eyes,,, you need to re qualify, is a joke. Only if you are acting as a DM on a boat should need to provide insurance ans such, then by all means time can and will catch up to you. Sadly there are some folk out there who just want cash and when "in there eyes" you don't cut the mustard then you need to pay.

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5 years 21 hours ago #295905 by james
james replied the topic: Padi scams
I don't know why many people do the DM course unless you have a burning desire to go on and become "professional" in the industry (and I dont know why anyone would want to do that ). I started a DM course a number of years ago found it a general waste of time, found I was learning nothing new, getting indoctrinated in the agency way of doing things, I had already been running and leading dives for my dive club for many years and was not getting anything out of it. The opportunity came up to do my decompression course, so quit the DM course and put my money into the deco course which at the time was by far the most rewarding and challenging course I had done , learning to plan dives properly and actually learning new skills.

I would recommend to anyone contemplating do a DM course don't waste your time and money, join an independent dive club get involved and gain valuable local knowledge from the more experienced club divers.

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5 years 20 hours ago #295907 by Rimau
Rimau replied the topic: Padi scams
That's my point, diving is {getting experience} deco courses are great but if there criteria is you must have your "DM" then where will it end?
I am only saying that unless all agencies respect and acknowledge there counterparts we {The Divers} are just the dollar to them.

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5 years 19 hours ago #295908 by Wrecked
Wrecked replied the topic: Padi scams
quote:

Originally posted by Rimau

I am a bit upset that I went online to "padi's" site to find that only one of my certificates had been listed, I rang them only to be told that things have changed now as I need to re qualify as a dive master and that I can't even get an updated photo, as my existing card has me in 1985. A lot younger and with more hair. Now it seems that my diving history can be manipulated by some young money grubber. I say after reading one of the forums here that firstly ssi is not the only dive organization to be approved by the Government as occupational health and safety exempts all dive cards, As far as as diving the Picc's goes, well as an old cat 2 cdaa diver, I would need to update my certification before I could even apply. But and this is the BUT, IF THE PRICES FOR RE CERTIFICATION ARE GOING TO KEEP GOING UP THEN I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN PLACE AN EXPIRY DATE ON THEM! shout out and make a difference.




The whole you can be a Pro diver thing is a scam really. I think re-certification should be made a little easier on the wallet really but to be fair to PADI most of it goes into insurance. And yes there's quite often updates to the course material which you need learn just like any other profession.

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5 years 13 hours ago #295909 by Rimau
Rimau replied the topic: Padi scams
{wrecked} By the the time that you pay for all your updates "you get poorer and they get richer, if you advance in certifications then it should be concurrent, and all firms should except other certifications. And to be fair! padi excepts no one Else's certifications other than there own + the insurance that you speak of goes to the USA, not here. Terry Cummins once told me that only "financial members" had insurance but when a young fellow I instructed used a modified scubapro bcd with a bank of 3 38 gram co2 cans, I had to ride him to the surface and he got a ruptured eye drum and I got the bends! PADI paid not a cent. and that was whilst I was an instructor.

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5 years 12 hours ago #295910 by spiro
spiro replied the topic: Padi scams
Ok so this is sounding more to me like you just want to beat your chest and show off how experienced you are, show off some war wounds..

Let me get this straight, you are upset because you can't update an old card with a New photo with out re doing the training? And this card is a dm card?

The new photo part of it sound to me like sheer stupidity, it doesn't matter a stuff!
And as has already been mentioned, you suffered a bend and gave up diving for a long time.. Proving you're proficiency as a dive leader is fair enough!

What do you want? Every one to bow down and kiss your **** because you've done some serious dives in your time? Because you got the bends? Because you know some big names?

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5 years 12 hours ago #295911 by slug
slug replied the topic: Padi scams
Does this have something to do with diving medicine? I must have missed something!

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5 years 11 hours ago #295912 by Namreg58
Namreg58 replied the topic: Padi scams
quote:

Originally posted by slug

Does this have something to do with diving medicine? I must have missed something!





It tells us that all ex DMs suffer from recurring symptoms induced by their respective training agencies and that the only known cure is to seek professional help (pay up) or kick the habit. :D [{-)]

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5 years 10 hours ago #295913 by Seamonkey
Seamonkey replied the topic: Padi scams
You make a choice to become a dive professional and go in with your eyes open. You understand the consequences of not keeping up your membership and remaining current in training standards and program developments. If you choose to not remain in active teaching status and take a substantive break then good on the agency for requiring you to re-train. This should be applauded.

Training as a Divemaster, Assistant Instructor or Instructor should not be for everyone. It is not some pinnacle of recreational diving as touted by some, it is for someone looking to work in the industry in some capacity. With that comes membership dues, insurance requirements and the need to keep active and up to date with agency training methods. Not dissimilar to any other professional in many industries.

You will find little sympathy here from people such as me who spend a great deal of time never mind the money ensuring we stay current.

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5 years 10 hours ago #295914 by Sharky
Sharky replied the topic: Padi scams
Yep there is lots of older divers around that completed professional level training many moons ago and me being one of them. however i don't consider it's my right to have a free ride back into the industry!
It gets down to your relationship with the training agency and how much experience you have had in the industry over the years as I have never had any problems after having a break from the industry and coming back again!
It comes down to this if you want to work in an industry where you get paid to have fun you must pay to be current to do so!
If your not happy with a particular training agency swap to another one as they are no different to any other wholesaler out there and all are quite willing take our money and retrain you same as any business in any industry would.
From your quoted experience I would not employ you either on my boat as a recreational dive master until you had repeated the complete course after a break of that long.
I will gladly pay up to become current again and won't need a new photo as I still have the same amount of hair.
[:nutter:]

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5 years 8 hours ago #295917 by MeRodent
MeRodent replied the topic: Padi scams
Bill you don't make it clear from your posts but are you after a cert to dive or to get back into the commercial side (dive master/instructor)?

The only reason you would need a DM cert is to continue on in leading or training divers for profit in which case the need to be current is an absolute.

If however you want to chase a recreational pathway then DM is not needed. If this is the case discuss with the LDS or training agency what their recognition for prior learning requirements are. Richard Taylor is probably an excellent person to talk to here as the head of SDI/TDI in Australia.

If you have taken a break as you stated it is probably a good idea to have an assessment dive with your preferred trainer who should then be able to advise you of your options at this stage. Maybe I'm just lucky (or don't live in Qld) but I've found that all the instructors I've dealt with are more interested in furthering my diving ability than just collecting cash.

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5 years 7 hours ago #295918 by Jasace
Jasace replied the topic: Padi scams
Bill, I for one agree with you 100%

In 28 years, nothing has changed:

[:-}]We still sit on the bottom to do our skills - Hey check out my buddha pose, although you may need an update for that.
[:-}]We still pull ourselves down the shot line making it hard for those behind us to find the wreck.
[:-}]We still hang on our bags vertically on deco with our computer in 6m, our head at 5.5m and our kicking legs at 7.3m
[:-}] We still all use closed reels and untangling them is just deco entertainment.
[:-}] The CDAA hasn't updated their access protcols or regulations.
[:-}] No landowner agreements have ever changed.
[:-}] It is completely safe to dive in an overhead environment with a long lapse.
[:-}] Nitrox and Trimix is still voodoo gas and should be viewed with the significant degree of risk it entails.

Now, back to reality - sorry, fella, I was having a bit of a lend of you.

Bill, I doubt Agnes would agree with you on anything you have written here. Most Cat2 divers wouldn't even pass Deep Cavern (Cat 1 and 2, which was then Cavern and Sinkhole) these days without significant work on their skill sets and complete equipment evaluation.

If you value your students, your life and your future more than your dollars - do yourself a favor and get the relevant training.

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5 years 7 hours ago #295919 by Stan Bugg
Stan Bugg replied the topic: Padi scams
G,day Rimau,
I am sympathetic to your situation, but it is hardly the fault of the agencies that you find yourself in your present predicament. To start off, and to prove how far diving has evolved since you were getting certificates, CDAA cat 2 has undergone TWO name changes and countless improvements in course content since the eighties. I agree with Jason; a lot of former Cat 2 divers would struggle to meet the requirements without more training, especially if they had not remained active in the sinkhole environment.

As for your card not being acceptable; I took a look at my 1985 cards, and it was like I was looking at a complete stranger. As for my 1978 card, well...let's not go there. ( Thank god my original cards ( 1960's) did not have photos.

If a diver knows a dive professional who can vouch for their skills and knowledge they can occasionally get fast tracked back into the fold with a wink and a nod and a checkout dive or two, but, as a retired IT with several agencies, if I did not know you personally, and I knew you had been idle for "a number of years" the only place to start would be at the beginning, and assuming NOTHING.

While I agree with you that it is not cheap to stay current, and it seems that agencies are the only ones who win, I am not aware of any alternative if you have your heart set on being a dive professional. For an agency to endorse you, membership and insurance are essential.

My advice to any aspiring dive leader is to say current if you have any inkling that you might return to it one day. Some agencies have a "holding" status which is a cheaper option than full membership, but allows an easier upgrade back to full privileges if circumstances change.

Regards,
Stan

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4 years 11 months ago #295927 by Wrecked
Wrecked replied the topic: Padi scams
quote:

Originally posted by Rimau

{wrecked} By the the time that you pay for all your updates "you get poorer and they get richer, if you advance in certifications then it should be concurrent, and all firms should except other certifications. And to be fair! padi excepts no one Else's certifications other than there own + the insurance that you speak of goes to the USA, not here. Terry Cummins once told me that only "financial members" had insurance but when a young fellow I instructed used a modified scubapro bcd with a bank of 3 38 gram co2 cans, I had to ride him to the surface and he got a ruptured eye drum and I got the bends! PADI paid not a cent. and that was whilst I was an instructor.




Should is a word I hear a lot these day's.

Some valid points but really whoever created the Recreation diving certification treadmill took it away from the weekend hacks it was once. And like some here have pointed out just an excuse to beat once's chest on the weekend.

I can understand PADI not paying considering CO2 cans aren't generally excepted equipment for diving [^()^]

But at the end of the day you are doing this over and over
[:banghead:]

I would reccomend to just suck it up or just don't participate or even better pass on the costs to whoever you are serving.

My last PADI installment was around $600 last time I paid(many years ago) but I got it back in diving trips and enjoyed it too.

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4 years 11 months ago #295934 by Aquamaniac
Aquamaniac replied the topic: Padi scams
quote:

Originally posted by Jasace



In 28 years, nothing has changed:

<snip>




Hehehe.....

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4 years 3 months ago #298543 by Wilson
Wilson replied the topic: Padi scams
Firstly at the age of being in your mid fifties, may I ask why you want to be a tank monkey? Isn't that job for the juniors/lackies?
Yes a few of us have had some health issues that have kept us out of the water for some amount of time but I would not continue boasting about your dcs incident.
I agree with one of the posts, exactly how much different can diving practices be from the mid 80's to today. They practice the same skills. Yes some of the equipment may have improved but really is there that much?
My DM cert expired in 2001, But that has not stopped me from diving, I'm just not the one leading them on a paid level.
And the LDS & PADI do NOT recognise any rpl's. I sat in on a PADI DM & instructor careers evening, I asked if PADI recognises a candidate for rpl if they have a degree in education from a respectable university...the answer was "no".They want you to learn how to instruct their way. That's when I thought, screw that.

Wilson
FPDC member #69

"Who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows?"

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4 years 3 months ago #298546 by AB
AB replied the topic: Padi scams
Wilson,
I'm wondering why you have responded to a thread which died in February? Especially as it seems the OP realised he wasn't getting support and walked away pretty soon. Actually. I'm not being critical that you posted, just wondering how you come across posts that are many months old?? Just curious!

Alan

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4 years 3 months ago #298548 by Andy Del
Andy Del replied the topic: Padi scams
While it sucks to find out the certification you had is now not accepted, and you need to shell out more $$$ to be able to possibly earn minimum money in what are usually totally horrid working conditions, things do change. the catch is, those caught out as the OP is, may not know what these changes are!

To illustrate, few years ago a work colleague, knowing I dive, asked to go out, brush up on his diving, so he can get back into it. He used to be a ship's diver in the RAN. I have no idea when this was, but Jacques Cousteau was probably in velvet shorts at the time...

His first brush up dive was a night dive at Camp Cove. there he learned about

BCD - how to use the inflator
SPG - what it meant (no two tanks, breathe one dry, etc.?)
Alternate air sources (no two tanks...)

Once we got that out of the way, teaching about my loaned gear, he was in the water and to be honest, had no issues at all.

Raise this to a PADI DM level (despite all the flack they deserve for their ever lower teaching standards) and there are all manner of changes since the early 2000,s let alone the 1990's or 1980's.

May I gently suggest, the better the man, the better a student he will be! (And I do not hint that I would be a good student at all!)

cheers

Andy

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4 years 3 months ago #298554 by Wilson
Wilson replied the topic: Padi scams
quote:

Originally posted by AB

Wilson,
I'm wondering why you have responded to a thread which died in February? Especially as it seems the OP realised he wasn't getting support and walked away pretty soon. Actually. I'm not being critical that you posted, just wondering how you come across posts that are many months old?? Just curious!

Alan




Hi Alan,
Diving medicine is a topic area that I very rarely read & how I came across the topic is via the drop down box at the top right which allows you to view topics in the last year.
Wilson

"Who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows?"

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